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 Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument

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Psyclone

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PostSubject: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:40 am

This is to Tyler and all of you who wish to argue about the worthieness or the worthlessness of the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series. This argument started as a few comments to persuade Steel to play or not play the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series. Later it became a comment war as Tyler started insulting the series with his own personal reasons. I understand that most of you are tired of seeing this topic already, but as the comment box on Steel's channel was disabled, it seems to me that our little debate was quite unfinished.

The following was the only part of the argument preserved and written by me. (The rest have gone to shreads as Steel diabled the comment box)

" okay. Here's the thing. Most people who dislike the mystery dungeon series are the ones who never actually got very far into the game due to impatience, lack of attention span etc.

The game play not necessarily that bad, and the reason ppl cannot recruit good pokemon is because they are not trying to recruit the Pokemon correctly, similar to some Pokemon noob trying to catch a Giratina with a Pokeball and complaining that it is impossible to catch it. There are a large variety of items, ranks, and conditions that help support recruit rate, and if anything, PMD 3 did a fantastic job of making recruiting easier than pmd 1 since they eliminated the friend area limit, and allows you to recruit even if the party size is full.

And the reason it takes "FOREVER" to level up is because ppl are not battling or grinding correctly, it's like asking for your Pokemon to be level 100 in a week when you run from every wild and only battle unavoidable trainers, and pick on weaklings. And if anything, the bosses are infinite times easier to defeat because of tons of useful items, equipments and move effects that can help you even if insanely underleveled. Trust me, if you ever fight bosses, the thing that matters are never the strongest movesets, highest levels, but good strategies.

And if you think that the story line is bordering average, you have shown that you know nothing about the pmd series. Perhaps one of the best reasons to play pmd is because of the intriguing story line. Even though it goes a little down hill in the first couple missions, as the story may seem childish and pathetic, but the foreshadowing events appear little by little and adds to the suspense, and when you are half way through the game, the story line becomes increadibly interesting not to mention that the plot ending can litterally move you and make you shed some tears. In fact if anything, the main Pokemon series games like DPPt are pathetic compared to PMD story wise.

And saying that "You have to be pretty obsessed with pokemon to enjoy this game" is our parents and other idiots who never touched Pokemon saying " Pokemon is immature and childish, grow up." You have to know what you are talking about before you comment or in many ways offend a subject.

So there you have it, Steel. Consider the words of a gamer who have achieved and trying to achieve nearly everything there is to achieve in both PMD and DPPt series. "

So to everyone who has a point to make, speak now or forever hold your peace.
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StebenL

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:42 am

I played it and didn't like it >.>
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ExDarkrai

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:16 pm

i've never played and never had the intention of playing it. I mean sure if someone just gave me it now and said "Play it" I probably would, but otherwise I've just never bought it.

So basically all I'm saying is that I have no view on it since Ive never played it, and basically Im spamming this topic >_>

8)
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Psyclone

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:02 pm

StebenL wrote:
I played it and didn't like it >.>

Played for how long? Better yet, how far did you get through it?
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LionHeart07

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:04 pm

I have played and enojoyed the first one bit repetetive and annoying after the I suppose "Final" Boss(before you could evolve) but before that it was great.
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Tsutanai

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:00 pm

Alright here's my review. Sorry I took so long, I had lotsa homework to do.

First of all, I would like to point out that at first I was like "COOL! a tactics pokemon game!"
But I was very disappointed, It's the same ol' pokemon game, with a different perspective.
There are no additional strategies, except for spamming those status seeds and infinite retreat. Yes, if you are about 3 squares away from an opponent, you can possibly run away endlessly.
(I would also like to mention the cheapest move in the game: Protect. It lasts MORE than 1 turn, AND you can attack during an active protect!)


Anyway on to the gameplay.

When you start, you come across your very first disappointment.
There are only a select few of starters to play as.
Also, you are pretty much stuck with whatever starters you get throughout most of the story missions.

Here's the gist of what you can become;
All the starters in each generation
Famous pokemon (such as pikachu, or riolu)
"cute" normal types (such skitty, or munchlax)
And a few random ones (such as cubone, or machop)
Before you even start the game, it is tedious.
You have to go through a personality test and then you are assigned a single pokemon. Then you can choose your partner and you are optioned EVERY OTHER STARTER that isn't your type.
If you don't like your personal pokemon, then you can soft reset.
And you have to watch the entire intro AGAIN! and no, you can't skip it.

If you are worried about your partners AI, well don't.
You can freely change their behavior whenever you want.
You start out with simple options like "run away", "fight", and "follow me".
You can give them gummies to increase their IQ. Which will give you more options like "use super-effective moves", or "stand there and do nothing".

There is a standard attack, that does a fair amount of
damage, with infinite PP. You just press A and this move has no type influence at all.
For battle moves, you've got to navigate through a couple menus (ugh) or you could assign a single move to L+A, but that's it. One move.

It's fun experimenting with move linking.
With this, you can use multiple moves on one turn. I find it effective to lower an opponent's defenses, and nuke them with your strongest attack.

Mystery Dungeon is of course, based on the whole concept of pokemon that we all know and love. Basically you just run around, killing other pokes, picking up items, and advancing to higher floors. In the beginning most dungeons have about 15 floors, which is a fair amount I'd say. Later on, you have to escalate 30 or even 40 floors with a single save station somewhere in the middle.
But if ya need a break beforehand, you can make a quick save of your exact location, which get's deleted when you start the game back up.

Exploring then becomes repetitive with all these floors and your favorite part becomes the room with the stairs. And speaking of stairs it would be nice if you could go backwards. There are many times where I've meant to get someone or an item on a specific floor and in my excitement at being placed in a room with the stairs, run on to the next level.

It almost seems like the developers are TRYING to make this game tedious. First of all, there is the hunger stat. After every 5 steps or so, the belly stat goes down.
When this reaches 0, EVERY single step you take does 1hp damage. So you must constantly scurry around the dungeon for food (if you didn't pack any)
Also, you can over-engorge yourself to permanently increase your belly stat.
(I know that this hunger stuff gives a more "adventury" feeling, but still, nobody likes it)
Thankfully, this stat only applies to the leader.
You'll very soon find yourself filling your pack half-full of food.

However, this stat had to replace another stat, speed.
This stat does not exist on any pokemon.
The order always goes Leader->Partner->opponent
But moves such as agility are still there.
Instead of increasing speed, it increases your TURNS.
So if you come across an opponent using agility, the order becomes this:
Leader->Partner->opponent->opponent again
this means that they can move, or attack you TWICE!
If they agility again, they have 3 turns, and so on (I think the limit is 4)
So you can't run away, and they have a HUGE advantage over you.

This game is about exploring right?
Then why do the developers make you REGRET exploring?
Around mid game, you might come across a random trap.
Some aren't so bad, one may damage you slightly, or drop your held item.
But some are aggravating. Badly poisoning, slowing down, etc...
I think there is some kind of item that detects these traps, but there is something you can never expect.
They're called monster houses.
When you come across these, pokemon literally rain down upon you and start overwhelming you with their numbers.
This is the reason why you will carry escape orbs.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot the most broken type ever, ghost.
They can go through walls, other types can't even attack through walls.
'nuff said.

If you just so happen to die, your partner dies, or a client on a escort mission dies, you will lose almost all of your items, and ALL OF YOUR MONEY. This gives a feeling of "starting over" and is immensely annoying.
However there are storages for money and items, but that is sorta unnecessary. You need to have some money on hand for there are these "in dungeon markets" that usually sell rare items. Also you NEED all your good items, such as escape orbs and reviver seeds.

You can recruit more Pokemon on your team, but you have to be at least Level 30 to get a good chance of recruiting better Pokemon than Level 4's. You need to have the team leader finish off the Pokemon, there has to be less that 4 Pokemon in the current traveling team, and then you have to have less than 6 stars of size in the traveling team.

After killing about 20 pokemon, one will eventually may wish to
join your party. If that new friend dies throughout the rest of your journey, it disappears.

However, they'll only be able to join if you have the correct Friend Area. Throughout the game, you'll get a few for free, but you have to buy the rest. Several of these are really expensive.

There are certain items that will increase your recruit rate, but the chance of finding such an item are really low. You may eventually come across a side mission (halfway through the game most likely) to get this item.

One more thing, you can't explore forever.
It doesn't matter who you are fighting, what you have, or how healthy you are. You will DIE! If you lallygag enough, you will see messages about a "wind" coming. You will keep getting notices until it eventually kills you.


Okay, as for the non gameplay stuff:

The main story for the first game is average+
The second game..eh average+2
The post story however is pathetic and rushed.
There is no real variation between bosses, you work your way up numerous floors of a cave/dungeon/weird pillar of clouds and once you reach the top, you see a legendary pokemon. It usually says something corny like "you will perish!" or "who dares disturbs me?"

The quality of the missions themselves is very poor. There's no variety whatsoever. The mission objectives pretty much are “rescue my friend”, “take me to see such and such”, or “get this item for me”

Another great disappointment is:
YOU DON'T EVOLVE UNTIL AFTER YOU BEAT THE GAME!
This is absurd! That's one of the most fun parts of pokemon games!

If you fail in a dungeon, you'll have to start over. However, if you're too far into a dungeon or you just don't want to have to go through this hassle, you can take the Friend Mail code, given to you by the game, and give it to somebody else.
That person can then enter the code in their game and come to your dungeon. If they succeed in reaching you without dying, then you'll be revived and able to continue through the dungeon.

The most interaction you can get with other
people is item trading, fighting their teams (with CPU controlling them) and getting their help when you've screwed up in a dungeon.

Mystery Dungeon has almost no replay value.
The only thing left to do after beating this game is to "catch 'em all!"
Otherwise, replaying this game will seem to be a chore.


Now Let's finish this up with a Pros vs. Cons list
Pros
-is pokemon
-better than average story
-move linking is fun
-partner's AI easily controllable
-battles are instant instead of having an intro (besides bosses)

Cons
-repetitive to a high caliber
-tedious to a VERY high caliber
-some moves have changed for the worse
-dying is unnecessarily BAD
-can't evolve until AFTER main storyline
-shallow post story
-hunger is "in the way"
-speed stat gone
-tough/tedious to recruit more pokes
-you play as your starters throughout most of the story
-few starters (bad based on above con)
-low replay value

(if anything isn't considered please let me know)

Story 5.7/10
Replay Value 2/10
Graphics/Music 8/10
Fun 1/10
Multiplayer 0.000001/10

Final Score (weighted) 2/10


Last edited by Tsutanai on Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixin stuff)
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Tsutanai

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:35 pm

... and now I repeat my claim of

You must be pretty obsessed with pokemon to enjoy game.

What are you talking about "people who never touched pokemon"?
Pokemon is quite mature, only the cruddy anime gives that vibe.
I love pokemon and hate mystery dungeon, without biased reasons.

If you like this game for the pros of
-is pokemon
-better than average story

well then I assume obsession.
Especially since the "is pokemon" pro is diminished upon multiple factors

I dislike this game for the cons of
-repetitive to a high caliber
-tedious to a VERY high caliber
-low replay value

and that's not even opinion.
Unanimous majority upon opinions = fact
repetitiveness/tediousness = bad as fact
Mystery Dungeon = high levels of repetitiveness and tediousness
Mystery Dungeon = very, very bad
high levels of repetitiveness and tediousness = undesired play
undesired play = low replay value
low replay value = bad
Mystery Dungeon = high levels of repetitiveness and tediousness + low replay value
Mystery Dungeon = very, VERY, bad

Mystery Dungeon = better than average story
better than average story = good
story value(greater than)undesired play value = good
story value(less than)undesired play value = bad
Mystery Dungeon = better than average story value
Mystery Dungeon = very high undesired play value
Mystery Dungeon = story value(less than)undesired play value
Mystery Dungeon = high levels of repetitiveness and tediousness + story value(less than)undesired play value
Mystery Dungeon = VERY, VERY BAD!

(ugh I could't put the associated symbols)
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:30 pm

well hold on now, the game wasnt Ocarina of Time but it was pretty entertaining. I agree, it does get tedious eventually but its not a 2/10, I'd give it a 5/10 or so, simply because it is relatively entertaining. I mean think of all the parts in regular pokemon games where they get repetitive (like route 217 in D/P/PPt). The game isnt that bad. Regular Pokemon series = 8.5 or 9/10 and Mystery Dungeon = 5/10.

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Tsutanai

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:36 pm

ch4rg3rs4lyf wrote:
well hold on now, the game wasnt Ocarina of Time but it was pretty entertaining. I agree, it does get tedious eventually but its not a 2/10, I'd give it a 5/10 or so, simply because it is relatively entertaining. I mean think of all the parts in regular pokemon games where they get repetitive (like route 217 in D/P/PPt). The game isnt that bad. Regular Pokemon series = 8.5 or 9/10 and Mystery Dungeon = 5/10.

lol U never justified how entertaining it is and said it is tedious.
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Akirazz

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:20 pm

Pokémon Mystery dungeon 2 is fun >_>
Really fun.
And the storyline is so deep.
I cried at the ending.
And the gameplay may be repetitive, but it's fun.
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Kipper

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:00 am

Oh dear. All I can say is... I liked it. It was fun. It does have some cons, yes, but you know what? They didn't bother me. :D
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LionHeart07

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:39 pm

wall of text is unneeded.....most of it just looked like nit picking(no personal insult intended tsutani)
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:27 am

I must say: I read every word of this topic and took everything the 2 walls of texts said. I took it into consideration, but currently the cons outweights the pros for me. But hey that's not to say my mind will change later.

P.S. This topic is a example of how it SHOULD be as opposed to:

Post 1: STFU NOOB PMD IS BEAST!!!!

Post 2: YOU STFU YOU HAVE NO LIFE. GO OUTSIDE OR SOMETHING!!!

Post 3: LOLNOOB!!! I HAVE 10 GIRLFRIENDS LOL NOOB!!!

So yes...I congratulate you all. XD

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ExDarkrai

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:43 pm

SpiritofSteel wrote:
I must say: I read every word of this topic and took everything the 2 walls of texts said. I took it into consideration, but currently the cons outweights the pros for me. But hey that's not to say my mind will change later.

P.S. This topic is a example of how it SHOULD be as opposed to:

Post 1: STFU NOOB PMD IS BEAST!!!!

Post 2: YOU STFU YOU HAVE NO LIFE. GO OUTSIDE OR SOMETHING!!!

Post 3: LOLNOOB!!! I HAVE 10 GIRLFRIENDS LOL NOOB!!!

So yes...I congratulate you all. XD

I LOL'd at that!

So after reading the walls of text I've decided to give this game a shot and form my own opinion about it so see you in a few weeks for this debate.
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Tsutanai

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:57 pm

...so after about idunno 2 months, All I gotta say is lol Psyclone cried at the ending >: P


Last edited by Tsutanai on Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fully Ramblomatic

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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:14 am

Meh, I liked it.
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:55 am

i have one thing to say... these games are awesome!!! But not for replays with the huge dungeons (eg silver trench) getting monster houses if u arent carrying heat wave
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:00 am

Dead topic dude XD
But anyway, I completed the Main Quest of PMD:BRT(After that I couldn't be bothered with the 100 floor crap so I messed around with my AR XD).Every dungeon was repetitive, but the story was decent=6/10
PMD 2 was the same goddamn thing, I deleted it off my R4. :¦
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PostSubject: Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Argument   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:07 am

You know, I started playing PMD Red/Blue and got up to the Part where the Main Characters where running away from Alakazam's Team. I just gotta say with all respect that by that time the game just got stupid. I thought running through a 20 Floor Dungeon was dumb but then it got to 30 and even 50 Levels of the same thing. And the fact that I had to soft reset 3 times to get a Charmander in the beginning just to find out you can't evolve until the end made me give up on the game... Thankfully it was an Emulator so I lost no many xD

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