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Kir

Kir


Posts : 33
Join date : 2009-06-14
Age : 30
Location : US

Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Empty
PostSubject: Latias team...no fancy titles needed!   Latias team...no fancy titles needed! I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2009 7:59 pm

Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Gsctrainer41 Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Dpffa380


White hair ftw. And I know I have a GSC trainer with a 3rd gen. Pokemon...who cares?



TEAM BUILDING

In a last-ditch effort to save my interest in Pokemon, I wanted to make a team that, instead of having all members hammer on each other’s counters allowing any one of them to break through and sweep, was focused on getting a specific Pokemon to sweep every match. The first step to building this team was obviously going to be deciding on who this late-game Pokemon would be. These were the characteristics I was looking for:

~ base speed stat of at least 100
~ 50% recovery move
~ unpredictability

Latias was my choice. The speed and recovery are obviously there, and I like her unpredictability too; one must know here entire moveset to be able to define a true counter. For example, Scizor is a counter if she doesn’t have HP Fire, but if she does, then the “counter” just got OHKOed. This is what made Latias the perfect choice for me.

I didn’t want something as simple and, sometimes, as random as Toxic to ruin her, so Refresh was added to the moveset, along with the rather obvious Calm Mind, Dragon Pulse, and Recover.

Latias team...no fancy titles needed! 380

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP/252 Spd/128 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Refresh

* this isn't my lead; its just where the team building process began.

It just so happens to be that, with this set, Latias is countered by the most common Pokemon in the standard metagame, Scizor, so it must be a priority in my team building process to have him covered well. Without a doubt, the best check to Scizor is a Scarved Magnezone with HP Fire. When used in tandem, Latias and Magnezone resist every attacking type, so I felt this was an excellent start.

I had wanted to try out a ScarfZone for a while, actually, since it is ridiculously underrated against stall teams. He can either take out the Skarmory or Forretress with the necessary attack, or, if the spiker doesn’t have leftovers, simply explode as my opponent makes the obvious switch to Blissey, thus breaking the game wide open. With this strategy in mind, and also considering Latias’ great stall-breaking abilities, I felt good about how I had defensive, passive damage-based teams covered.

Latias team...no fancy titles needed! 462

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

Although Magnezone does a good job at keeping my opponent’s steel types at bay, I just cannot reliably check all of these OU steel type Pokemon with only him. I needed a Pokemon that would force my opponent to show me their steels, and hopefully weaken them enough that they’ll be non-factors the rest of the match. A scout / wallbreaker, so to speak.

I wanted this Pokemon to be a dragon type, since it’s pretty obvious that nothing can take repeated Draco Meteors and/or Outrages besides steels. That leaves my choices to be:

Flygon
Dragonite
Kingdra
Salamence

Flygon’s greatest asset here is U-turn. Theoretically, he can lure out the steel on the predicted Outrage and then I can go straight to Magnezone to do his thing. However, I feel that double scarvers is a dangerous, dangerous strategy, and frankly, Flygon is outclassed unless he’s scarved.

Dragonite is just Dragonite...I love the guy, but competitively, he really wishes he were Salamence unless it’s a very bulky set, which wasn’t what I was looking for.

Kingdra had two major selling points: two usable STAB moves and great typing (offensively and defensively). I had seen a few great battlers recently use a Dragon Dance Kingdra very, very effectively, which of course made me want to give it a try. There was nothing to not like about Kingdra.

Salamence was the only reason I had trouble settling on Kingdra. His attack stat is just so much higher! Another plus to using him was that his most common check is CB Scizor, who Magnezone really appreciates, and by eliminating Scizor, Latias can have free reign. The only thing not to like here was the Stealth Rock weakness, which was ultimately the reason I decided to test Kingdra first...

...and I’ve never looked back since. SubLum Kingdra has been a fantastic addition to the team. Whenever I get bored with this team, I’ll probably try out Salamence in this spot, but until then, Kingdra is great.


Latias team...no fancy titles needed! 230


Kingdra (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Waterfall
- Outrage

OU has two very common users of Pursuit, which is the most standard method of defeating Latias: Scizor and Tyranitar. Scizor has been addressed already, but Tyranitar hasn’t.

Finding something that can lure in and OHKO Tyranitar is hard, but my friends, I’m telling you now to look no further than at a set that Smogon has hidden near the bottom of their Celebi analysis, “Tinkerbell”. Before explaining the set, I’ll familiarize you with it first, for those of you who are unaware.

Latias team...no fancy titles needed! 251_Celebi

Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 228 HP/36 Spd/244 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Recover
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave

Generally speaking, Celebi just doesn’t die in one hit. He paralyzes, he heals, and then sends you home with a ridiculously powerful Leaf Storm. He silences the many cocky Scizor -even after the SAtk drop from Leaf Storm he deals 64-75%- with HP Fire. Thunder Wave makes up for the lack of speed EVs (the 36 that I have are for Jolly Tyranitar).

At this point I was feeling really great about how the team was coming together. There were some problems though, namely DD Ttar, DD Gyarados, DD Mence, Machamp, SubPetaya Empoleon, etc.

I wanted a bulky Pokemon, but one who could really dish out a hit, too. This Pokemon was intended to be my “oh crap, I’m weak to that, lets go beat it with x while sacrificing x and be done with it” button, if that makes any sense, lol.

Explosion is a move that I wanted on that Pokemon. I looked at the list of OU Exploders, and these were the ones with passable defenses.

Heatran
Metagross
Forretress
Bronzong

I chose Metagross because he offers the most out of those Pokemon without compromising on anything (ex. Bronzong’s attack, Forretress’ SDef). The priority and the typing were great assets to the team. Yes, this set looks kinda gimmicky, but it really does work. The concept was taken from Vashta’s team “Rose Tyler”.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2003638

Kinda old thread, don’t comment in it please.


Latias team...no fancy titles needed! 376


Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/232 Atk/12 Def/12 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion

No team without Cresselia has a safe Salamence switch-in, but I needed something that can beat it one on one, set up my Stealth Rocks, and counter a few common leads. This time my choice was easy. Swampert.


Latias team...no fancy titles needed! 260


Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Avalanche

I use physical Swampert as opposed to mixed becauseit does better against Latias, still does well against Salamence (though admittedly, not as well), and I can also outrun other Swampert, which might seem like a minor thing, but the scenario has come up on many different occasions where its my ~20% neutral spe natured Swampert vs. their ~20% -spe natured Swampert.

...and now I have to make a new post because it won't let me post everything in one post (too long).


Last edited by Kir on Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kir

Kir


Posts : 33
Join date : 2009-06-14
Age : 30
Location : US

Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Latias team...no fancy titles needed!   Latias team...no fancy titles needed! I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2009 8:00 pm

Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Dpiconani260
Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Dpiconani376
Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Dpiconani251
Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Dpiconani230
Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Dpiconani462
Latias team...no fancy titles needed! Dpiconani380


---

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Protect / Roar
- Earthquake
- Avalanche

Simplicity ftw. Leads must be reliable, and Swampert is just that, as he is one of the game’s sturdiest Pokemon. He places Stealth Rock on my opponent’s field early in the game, and hits many common leads for acceptable damage with just two attacking moves. Protect scouts Trick leads and Explosions, and also helps Swampert regain his health. I’d love to have Roar, but seeing as I have no ghost on the team to switch into Explosions, Protect is the superior choice. Maybe. I need opinions on this lol.

---

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/232 Atk/12 Def/12 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Metagross wins 1 v 1 against pretty much any Pokemon. He is the glue holding my team together, exploding on the troublesome +1 +1 Gyarados, Salamence, etc and picking off low HP Pokemon with Bullet Punch. I’ve considered both Shuca and Occa Berry, but Leftovers are so useful for switching into things like Tyranitar Crunches.

---

Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 228 HP/36 Spd/244 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Recover
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave

Celebi does its job perfectly. It scouts what the opposing Celebi / Blissey has, it absorbs random Thunder Waves if Swampert doesn’t want to come in against that Pokemon, it helps against Gyarados, Scizor, Machamp, etc. Between Leaf Storm, HP Fire, and Thunder Wave, Celebi has something effective to use against every single Pokemon, barring something kinda gimmicky / rare like a Heatproof Bronzong.

---

Kingdra (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Waterfall
- Outrage

SubLum is wonderful. I can DD as they use Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp and then Sub as they try to do it again. With his typing, KIngdra can find an opening to set up against essentially any team fairly easily.

SubLum Kingdra makes an absolute fool out of most of his counters ( *looks at Celebi* ). Also, I’m free to spam Outrage with this set, knowing that if I use it, I’ll either be KOing something or bringing in a steel, who’ll be smacked decently hard by Waterfall after Lum cures my confusion if it wasn’t used in the set-up.

---

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

Not having to worry about Lucario and/or Scizor is great! You all know how Scarfzone works, so I won’t needlessly babble about its effectiveness.

A trick that I learned when reading an old RMT (by Legacy Raider iirc) is to send out my Latias early game, against something like an Infernape, and double switch straight to Magnezone to catch the incoming Scizor / [insert steel type here].

---

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP/252 Spd/128 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Refresh

Here is where it all began, late game Latias. There are so many common set-up fodders for her its ridiculous. After my early lures / trappers have done their job, rarely can anything get in the way of Latias and gg.
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Kir

Kir


Posts : 33
Join date : 2009-06-14
Age : 30
Location : US

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PostSubject: Re: Latias team...no fancy titles needed!   Latias team...no fancy titles needed! I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2009 8:01 pm

HOW I HANDLE OU POKEMON (ABC ORDER)

Aerodactyl- essentially all Aerodactyl are leads, which Swampert beats. Any attacking variants can be beaten with Metagross or Celebi pretty easily

Alakazam- Metagross is my best answer. Others such as Latias and Swampert can do okay. It’s a good thing he dies to anything as strong as or more powerful than a tackle from Magikarp (although Magikarp needs a Choice Band to do so, iirc...lol).

Azelf- Swampert takes on most of the lead variants pretty well by protecting on the Explosion. Nasty Plotters are beaten by Latias. It takes some prediction to beat the all out mixed attackers, but thankfully people are often dumb enough to waste this thing as a lead. Either way, it shouldn’t sweep me. Metagross’ Bullet Punch is key.

Blissey- set up fodder for Latias. The only Pokemon on my team who doesn’t fare decently against Blissey is Swampert, and given that I have multiple ways of absorbing her status moves, I’m not worried about her. She’ll go down eventually.

Breloom- Kingdra lols at this thing. Metagross, Celebi, Magnezone, and Latias can all revenge kill it.

Bronzong- seriously, who uses this thing anymore? He does wall most of my team lol, but he isn’t really getting much done against me. With no means of recovery outside of its leftovers, he won’t stick around for the whole match.

Celebi- it can be annoying, but is still rather easy to play around. Latias does well against most sets. Kingdra does a good job of setting up against defensive Celebi and severely weakening or sometimes beating it. This is one of Metagross’ potential Explosion targets.

Cresselia- see Celebi.

Donphan- very rare Pokemon to see in OU...how is it still even in the OU tier? Anyways, Celebi is a great check.

Dragonite- Celebi, Swampert, and Metagross all do well. Latias revenges if it doesn’t have a Dragon Dance. Requires prediction to beat, but all Dragons are that way.

Dugtrio- lol counter??? Swampert, Celebi, and even Metagross (banded EQ won’t KO) all are fine.

Dusknoir- Celebi doesn’t fear his weak Shadow Sneak, and hits back really hard with Leaf Storm. Kingdra does really well, too.

Electivire- Swampert, Metagross, Celebi

Empoleon- +1 Ice Beam doesn’t OHKO Celebi, Kingdra, or Latias. As a side note, even though Empoleon resists both of Kingdra’s STAB moves, it still loses 1 v 1 if it switches into Kingdra on any move besides Outrage.

Flygon- is it possible to counter a U-turn based Pokemon outside of predicting well? Theoretically, though, this thing could give me big problems...but I haven’t had any yet. I just need to keep Swampert’s HP up.

Forretress- Magnezone. Celebi and Kingdra do well, too.

Gengar- Magnezone, Metagross. Swampert in a pinch or maybe even Latias speed tie.

Gliscor- Celebi OHKOs 79% of the time without SR, 100% of the time with it. Some Gliscor are set up fodder for Latias, but not all. In a pinch, this could be a target of Metagross’ Explosion.

Gyarados- Celebi OHKOs Bulky Gyara after SR 87% of the time, offensive Gyarados 100% of the time. Magnezone, in a pinch, can be sent in to take on a Gyarados because if it doesn’t have EQ then I’m relatively safe. Kingdra can take a +1 LO Stone Edge and do solid damage with Outrage. Metagross can Explode if I absolutely need it.

Heatran- Swampert, Kingdra. Magnezone if its choiced onto something other than Fire Blast or Earth Power. Latias sets up on a choicer without Explosion.

Heracross- thankfully Heracross usage has gone way down...he hurts me bad. Simply put, I have to predict well to beat him.

Hippowdon- Celebi, Latias. Metagross Explosion worst case scenario.

Infernape- Latias, Kingdra, Magnezone. Swampert beats the rare Swords Dancer.

Jirachi- Swampert beats the SubCMers. Metagross does well. Against Trick Scarf leads, I protect with Swampert. If they Trick, then I go to Magnezone for the free KO.

Jolteon- He can’t OHKO anyone on the team with his two most common moves, Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt, and everyone on the team has potential to OHKO him back. Simple prediction beats Jolteon.

Kingdra- Swampert and Metagross do well. Celebi if it doesn’t have Substitute. Latias and Magnezone do well if it doesn’t have a DD.

Latias- Metagross, Swampert. Celebi can paralyze. Magnezone can explode if he has to.

Lucario- Magnezone! Magnezone doesn’t OHKO, but he still makes luke a non-factor. Metagross takes it out with Bullet Punch after luke barely survives my Thunderbolt.

Machamp- personally, I think every team is weak to Machamp somehow. He is definitely annoying and I don’t know what else to say other than that I play around him, and explode if I have to.

Magnezone- my own Magnezone does well. Prediction beats the scarfers. Swampert’s electric immunity is nice. Not a threat to this team.

Mamoswine- Metagross and Magnezone can both outspeed and deal heavy damage (Metagross through priority). Celebi isn’t OHKOed and does OHKO back. I’m pretty confident Kingdra can survive a hit.

Metagross- Swampert beats the lead and Agility versions and is my main counter, but realistically, only one of my Pokemon fears Metagross (Latias) and therefore I’m not worried about him.

Ninjask- lol I hate Baton Pass teams. Metagross’ priority is key to beating this thing...but who even uses this guy???

Porygon-z- Latias, Magnezone, and Metagross all do a fine job.

Rhyperior- Celebi and Kingdra both do okay. Could definitely be a problem when paired with Toxic Spikes...hey, I think I just got an idea for a team!

Rotom-a- Celebi’s Leaf Storm does a lot. If it’s not a RestTalker, then I’m willing to use Magnezone against it. Latias can do okay. This thing is annoying, though, without a doubt.

Salamence- see Dragonite

Scizor- lol (I have Magnezone). Celebi lures in and OHKOs, even after a Leaf Storm. Not a problem Pokemon for me.

Skarmory- Magnezone. Shed Shell Skarms are bad news, though...ideas?

Smeargle- the lead Spiker set is very, very dangerous to me. I switch to Celebi on the Spore, hope they Spike as I switch to Kingdra; DD on the next Spore, Sub on the Spore after that. If that strategy works, I’m golden, but if they Spore twice in a row, I think I probably lose because my team hates Spikes.

Snorlax- this guy is bad, bad news...Metagross needs to Explode. Should Swampert have Roar? I’ll really, really miss Protect, though.

Starmie- Celebi can take a hit and KO back, Kingdra and Latias set up on some variants. Magnezone and Metagross do okay, too.

Suicune- see Starmie.

Swampert- Celebi, Kingdra, Latias.

Tentacruel- set up fodder for my dragons. Metagross and Swampert do fine. Tentacruel is only seen on stall teams, and I’ve discussed them in the team building section.

Togekiss- Magnezone and Metagross do well. Kingdra has a chance to set up on it with “sublum”.

Tyranitar- Swampert, Metagross, Kingdra. Celebi lures and OHKOs.

Vaporeon- see Starmie.

Weavile- Metagross and Swampert beat it...who uses this thing (though I’m not saying he’s bad, lol. Isn’t that right, Ciaran?)?.

Zapdos- Latias’ best friend. Swampert beats HP Grass-less variants. Celebi’s Thunder Wave helps me beat Zapdos if I don’t want to rely on Latias (especially considering many players use Zapdos + Tyranitar because they cover each other’s weaknesses well).

---

I hope you enjoyed reading this rate my team. I tried to keep all of the information relevant to the team and not tell you all a ton of information that you already know.

I’m very proud of this team. For those who care about numbers, I’ve used it for 3 weeks now, and have only lost 4 times. Though I haven’t been incredibly active, that’s still very good considering I’ve lost track of my wins. As far as ladder ranking and whatnot, I don’t know and I don’t care. How’s that for honesty, eh?

In conclusion, I believe that building a team around a certain Pokemon so that they can sweep later is the most effective route to take in building a team. This way, you can execute your own strategy all the time, not always worrying about what the opponent is doing. Keeping the initiative is instrumental in winning at competitive Pokemon!

Kir
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Pokefan362

Pokefan362


Posts : 175
Join date : 2009-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Latias team...no fancy titles needed!   Latias team...no fancy titles needed! I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2009 8:46 pm

This should DEFINITELY be the poster boy for ALL RMTs in this godforsaken forums. People, at least try and follow Kir's awesome example. That is all I have to say. Nice team, too bad I cannot rate it.
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ArPeeGee

ArPeeGee


Posts : 1435
Join date : 2009-05-01
Age : 30
Location : Wichita Falls, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Latias team...no fancy titles needed!   Latias team...no fancy titles needed! I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 11, 2009 8:42 pm

Damn, you really put some thought in this. I guess once I get my ultimate team, I can do this.
I have one thing that I think can beat this.....a HAIL TEAM
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PostSubject: Re: Latias team...no fancy titles needed!   Latias team...no fancy titles needed! I_icon_minitime

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